KEN KIRSCHENBAUM, ESQ
ALARM - SECURITY INDUSTRY LEGAL EMAIL NEWSLETTER / THE ALARM EXCHANGE
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ISC Schedule/ Trouble getting contracted/ using the contracts/ can you accept payment from agent
March 15, 2023
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Schedule for Group Discussion Meetings at ISC [subject to dealer interest] Meetings are limited to 6 dealers. Contact Stacy Spector,Esq at 1 516 747 6700 x 304 or SSpector@Kirschenbaumesq.com to reserve a spot. Private meetings with Ken Kirschenbaum are still available – contact Stacy for appointment. All meetings presently scheduled at Palazzo Prestige Lounge.
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Group Meeting Schedule:
Tuesday, March 28 at 2:00pm-2:45pm: Employee Retention Credit Group Meeting with Mitch Reitman
Tuesday, March 28 at 3:00pm-3:45pm: Central Station Group Meeting with Director of Sales Joe Goodman, COPS
Wednesday, March 29 at 10:00am-11:00am: Finance Group Discussion with Jim Wooster, Alarm Financial Services
Wednesday, March 29 at 3:30pm-4:00pm: AIN Buying Group with Stan Matysiak
Thursday, March 30 at 9:30 - 10:30am at ESA meeting room: Bassano Suite 2705 by convention floor: Liability, insurance, horror stories, claims and other issues from perspective of Claims Administrator [Bart} and Alarm Defense Attorney [Ken]. Ken Kirschenbaum and Bart Didden. This promises to be entertaining and informative. You don't want to miss this.
Thursday, March 30 at 11:00am-11:45: Alarm Brokers Group meeting with Rory Russell, Acquisition & Funding Services
Thursday, March 30 at 1:00pm-1:45pm: Contracts Group Meeting with Ken Kirschenbaum
Thursday, March 30 at 2:00pm-2:45pm: Insurance E&O Group Meeting with Shawn Iverson, The Insurance Center
Thursday, March 30 at 3:00pm-3:45pm: Sale or Purchase of Business Group Meeting with Ken Kirschenbaum
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Private Meeting Schedule: Still a few open times for private meetings. Call Stacy.
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Trouble getting contracted
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Ken
Last week was the first time we submitted your new contracts. Residential All in One.
Old unused alarm needed to be updated with all new equipment. Cellular communicator. The customer verbally agreed to price and dates and seemed very happy with us. We ordered and received all the equipment. We submitted the contracts we just purchased from you and they could not believe the terms, saying we must be liable for our work. Refused to sign. Then a few days later they emailed saying they found someone else for their alarm.
Not happy and afraid to use the contracts again.
Suggestions?
Rick
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Response
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It took a lot of training and experience to learn how to install alarm systems. Learning how to sell and get your contracts signed takes training too. Which is more important? Well, tell me if the chicken comes before the egg? You need to learn both and they are mutually exclusive talents.
You should not have ordered any equipment until you had a signed contract, and in this scenario, waited for the three day cancellation period to expire [and give the cancellation form of course at time of contract signing when you also gave a fully executed copy of the signed contract]
At least you didn’t finish the installation and then present the contract, like some do.
I should have some training webinars on how to sell the contracts because that is the business you are in. Any talented sale people want to participate on the webinar?
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Buying and not using the contracts
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Ken
I have recommended your contracts to one of my friends, another security company.
For years I keep telling him what an asset it is. He kept telling me no one would ever sign Kirschenbaum contracts. I would tell him how we had to go to arbitration and win. Eventually he purchased them from you.
Recently a Nassau fire marshal stopped in to check a building my associate replaced the fire panel. Nassau requires certain stickers on the outside of the panel. He reached out to my friend and asked him into his office to ask him a few questions.
The outcome, four summons with fines. He is a corporation requiring a lawyer to appear in court. I asked him if he has signed Kirschenbaum contracts.
His answer was no. I paid for them but I don’t use them. (unbelievable)
His exposure now is unlimited……..
Your talent in this industry in my opinion is first class. When your office did negotiation for us on many large fire alarm jobs it turned out perfectly. In closing the only thing I can say is “ you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”
Yes you can use this,
without my name.
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Response
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I can confidently reveal that millions of alarm customers have signed Kirschenbaum Contracts, so someone must know how to get them signed.
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New management company wants to pay
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Ken,
I’ve seen some of your comments about this a subject and would like your help with clarification. We have one of your signed agreements with an owner of an apartment building that I got back in October of last year. I didn’t notice till later that payments were coming in from a property management company via ACH and so I contacted them and I got no response until now.
Come to find out that a new property management company took over in January and the new property management company wants to pay our back invoices and continue to pay for our services, I told them that the owner we are In contract with is responsible for payment and should be the one to pay us not them.
They got very upset and sent me the agreement they have with the owner of the property for some reason.
Not sure how I should handle this, should I ask for a letter from the owner stating that this management company can act as an agent for the owner or just sick to my guns and require the owner to pay?
Thanks again you’re the best!
Guido in California
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Response
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This is a great question even if some readers think it’s an easy answer; it’s really not unless you read what Guido says carefully.
First let me note that the usual issue that comes up when a new management company shows up is that they want to toss out the existing alarm company and replace it with a company they like working with or they insist on the existing alarm company signing the management company’s form vendor agreement. In that scenario the existing alarm company can let the management company know that the contract is with the owner and nothing has changed or will be changed [if that’s how the existing alarm company wants to handle it].
In Guido’s scenario the new management company issued payment on behalf of the owner and the alarm company questioned why they sent it. That was a good question because you really shouldn’t accept payment from a third party unless you know the connection to your customer. For one thing that paying entity may end up filing bankruptcy and the Bankruptcy Trustee may claim that the paying company received no consideration for the payment and it had to be returned [yes I have recovered in such situation].
But in Guido’s scenario the management company sent him a copy of its agreement with the owner [Guido’s customer under contract]. Guido doesn’t know why. The management company probably didn’t know why either, but it was exactly what should have been sent to establish the management company’s agency. An agent cannot prove the agency relationship without its principal’s acknowledgement in some form or another. In this scenario the management agreement shows the agency and the right of the management company to handle matters like paying vendors like the alarm company.
Guido’s hold-out for a separate letter from the owner-customer is unnecessary and he can accept payment from the management company.
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STANDARD FORM AGREEMENTS: To order up to date Standard Form Alarm / Security / Fire and related Agreements click here: www.alarmcontracts.com
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CONCIERGE LAWYER SERVICE PROGRAM FOR THE ALARM INDUSTRY - You can check out the program and sign up here: https://www.kirschenbaumesq.com/page/concierge or contact our Program Coordinator Stacy Spector, Esq at 516 747 6700 x 304.
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Ken Kirschenbaum,Esq
Kirschenbaum & Kirschenbaum PC
Attorneys at Law
200 Garden City Plaza
Garden City, NY 11530
516 747 6700 x 301
ken@kirschenbaumesq.com
www.KirschenbaumEsq.com
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