KEN KIRSCHENBAUM, ESQ
ALARM - SECURITY INDUSTRY LEGAL EMAIL NEWSLETTER / THE ALARM EXCHANGE
You can read all of our articles on our website. Having trouble getting our emails? Change your spam controls and white list ken@kirschenbaumesq.com
******************************
Comments on fire or water damage
August 13, 2021
*********************
Comments on fire or water damage
*********************
Ken,
Your reply on August 4th 2021, to Jeff about "What's worse fire or water damage" is the classic KK response, "Would you prefer to break the left or right leg?"
But Jeff does pose a great question, "where is the biggest risk, leak or fire?" and what is the opinion of an insurance underwriter. Now I am not an underwriter, but I am consulted often in my role as a Claims Manager by underwriters and my opinion when coupled with my 39 years in the industry as a central station owner (USA Central Station Alarm Corp, with four offices in NY, CT, MN, WA) I do have sought after positions based on my experiences.
Water damage claims are the worst, PERIOD! This is why, the mere fact that there was no expected occurrence (fire or heat source above xxx degrees) to cause the release of the water changes everything. If there was a fire and the system worked as designed, there would be little to no reason to accept any claim because the system worked as anticipated or designed and hopefully a KK contract. End of story.
But everything else in Jeff's letter is troublesome to say the least. Let's unpack some of his statements.
The first troubling statement is that they consider leaving a dry system wet if the conditions don't present a risk of it freezing. My first observation would be that this would be fine if Jeff could predict the future or the local weatherman was able to forecast weather conditions to a 100% certainty, this is simply impossible. The system was designed as a dry system for a reason as set forth by onsite conditions and designed to the Codes and by licensed designers such as an architect, not an everyday plumber that cleans out kitchen drains for rotor router.
Next is Jeff's admission that, " If left charged and full of water, the water flow switch is in alarm mode, and needs to be disabled, thus, should water start flowing out of the pipe (leak or fire) there will be no alarm indication. " Code would dictate that a Fire Watch be established, or at the very least jeff should demand some sort of written acknowledgement from the Fire Marshall or Department that the system can be left out of service. Either way this is just a recipe for a disaster because Murphy's Law states if it can, it will happen and anything happening here will be bad.
The proper course would be to drain the system, make the needed repairs and return the system to its intended or designed service state. This is much more involved than 24 words to form a sentence. A properly designed dry system is installed to be completely drained after it's been charged with water, either by gravity achieved by the pitch of every pipe system wide, or through a series of drains including sumps if there are areas that pipe pitching is impossible to be achieved or maintained. Either way, these systems are not for the untrained or uncertified and this brief comment is not designed to impart any knowledge or encourage anyone not trained to undertake any action.
But again, thanks for the KK humor, "Would you prefer to break your right leg or left leg?", classic Kenny.
Bart A. Didden, Executive Claims Manager
Security America Reassurance Group, Inc. - SARG
877-872-1266
bdidden@securityamericarrg.com
********************
Response
********************
Bart, I [we] appreciate your perspective, especially the technical stuff about dry and wet sprinkler systems. I’d like to say that “when I want your opinion I’ll tell you what it is”, but your response was thoughtful and beyond my expertise. But, I am not sure I agree with your opinion regarding what’s worse, fire or water damage. That was the question. I’d get your response:
“Water damage claims are the worst, PERIOD! This is why, the mere fact that there was no expected occurrence (fire or heat source above xxx degrees) to cause the release of the water changes everything. If there was a fire and the system worked as designed, there would be little to no reason to accept any claim because the system worked as anticipated or designed and hopefully a KK contract. End of story.”
The response seems like it addresses liability issues and I think the question was about damages, meaning which loss causes the most damage. I opined that fire probably caused the most damage. [I concede that I’ll often ask your opinion so I can better arrive at mine] From the claims I have handled and know about fire has caused the most damage; of course it probably includes water damage too if not from sprinklers then from fire-fighters.
You did graciously mention that neither fire nor water will defeat the Kirschenbaum Contract. You didn’t put it that way, exactly, but we all know what you meant. Thanks as always for taking the time to share your wisdom and experience.
*********************
Another comment on fire or water damage
*********************
Ken
The best course of action is to shut the sprinkler off and require a fire watch. That will cause the owner to address the necessary repairs and the seriousness of the issue. If they refuse a fire watch you should advise the fire department.
A 2014 study of Home insurance losses in Canada (Canadian institute of Actuaries, research project by KPMG) found that water damage claims paid are water at 47%, fire at 31%, theft at 7%, Other 14%.
In commercial building where sprinklers are ubiquitous, we see water activation due to fire is not as common as due to occupant caused, poor design, improper installation practices, sprinkler failure or unknown cause.
Robert Baxter, P.Eng., CEO
Radius Security
Vancouver Fire Prevention
National Fire and Safety Planners
B.C. Canada V6W1J5
********************
Response
********************
Thanks for this information. So there are more water claims than fire, but which claims are higher in damages? You and Bart are in agreement that a fire watch should be in place. Good advice. Get the AHJ involved.
*********************
To order up to date Standard Form Alarm / Security / Fire and related Agreements, click here: www.alarmcontracts.com
*************************
CONCIERGE LAWYER SERVICE PROGRAM FOR THE ALARM INDUSTRY
You can check out the program and sign up here: https://www.kirschenbaumesq.com/page/concierge or contact our Program Coordinator Stacy Spector, Esq at 516 747 6700 x 304.
***********************
NOTICE: You can always read our Articles on our website at ww.kirschenbaumesq.com/page/alarm-articles
***********************
THE ALARM EXCHANGE
This area is reserved for alarm classifieds, alarm company announcements, solicitations, offers, etc.
There is no charge to post a listing here.Include your contact information, phone, email and web site. If you would like to submit a post, please send an email to ken@kirschenbaumesq.com. To create a reciprocal link to our website, click here.
************************************************
Getting on our Email List / Email Articles archived:
Many of you are forwarding these emails to friends or asking that others be added to the list. Sign up for our daily newsletter here: Sign Up. You can read articles and order alarm contracts on our web site www.alarmcontracts.com
**************************
Ken Kirschenbaum,Esq
Kirschenbaum & Kirschenbaum PC
Attorneys at Law
200 Garden City Plaza
Garden City, NY 11530
516 747 6700 x 301
ken@kirschenbaumesq.com
www.KirschenbaumEsq.com
|
