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COMMENT ON CARD ACCESS FROM SEPTEMBER 9 2015 ARTICLE
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Ken,
Your response [Sept 9 2015] to Chris regarding a card access system on a lobby door concerned me. Depending upon the occupancy type in NFPA 101, an access control lock on a main door may be prohibited. Second, if the building has a fire alarm system the access system would most likely have to be connected for auto release during a fire (especially a maglock). If so, the AHJ probably requires plans to be submitted as well as a final inspection. Not installing it to code may not meet muster and done right, Chris can have the AHJ on his side == in advance ==bRoy Pollack, CPP SET
Director of Licensing & Training Compliance
Comcast / Xfinity Home
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Ken
Regarding the comment from Chris about Access Control in commercial buildings in NYC, if he does this work or intends to then he needs to pick up a copy of the NYC Building Code, which provides the important information that applies here, that most people doing this stuff don’t have the faintest idea would apply. It covers situations such as this and other related situations as well.
SG
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COMMENTS ON SMOKE DETECTOR ISSUE / ELECTRICIANS
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Ken
On the smoke detector topic, as when to replace a smoke DETECTOR not smoke alarm, the manufacturer and only the manufacturer states when to and not everyone adding their two cents here based upon nothing. By the way most do not state a replacement time. If what they state is true on smoke detector replacement what about modules, signals, flame detectors etc.?
Lastly on the subject of supervising signals on household fire alarm systems, if it was required they would be manufactured with that capability and there would be compatible signaling devices manufactured for that purpose with such equipment. Since they are not made and not listed in the manufacturers manual with that requirement but are listed as a household fire alarm control it is not required and just in this case an expressed opinion of the person trying to sell his concept and upset the world. To that person insisting that this must be done then he should write a letter to UL or look at UL listing to see what it says.
Much too much over reaction here. Want true formal statement ask the manufactures and the NFPA that take questions from members (which apparently from the questions and comments here are few) not people spurring nonsense.
SG
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Ken
Dennis's reply about Smoke Detector placement is not entirely accurate.
I have done work on several new commercial buildings in the past year and I have a collection of photographs showing SMOKE DETECTORS within 6" of an air diffuser on the sales floor where an inspector would have to be blind not to see it if he/she is in fact INSPECTING WORK.
In most cases the inspector relies on your "72" form and may require a test of several devices.
In 30+ years in this business I have only been asked for a full 100% demonstration about 1 time per year. As Jeff Zwirn has said in the past YOU are responsible for your work. If the inspector does not catch it and there is a loss YOU are the professional and should have spotted the engineers error (or your own) and will be called to answer for it in the future.
EDUCATION AND KNOWLEDGE are the keys to compliant installations.
Just because a person has an engineering degree is no guarantee that the design is accurate. If it were why do all of my bid requests emphasize "SUCCESSFUL BIDDER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR COMPLIANCE WITH ALL APPLICABLE CODES AND STANDARDS." Is that engineer talk for "If I screwed up and you don't catch it, you own it..."?
Take a CODE COURSE, LIFE SAFETY COURSE, FIRE ALARM DESIGN course. Also buy your own copy of NFPA72.
From the bunker
Joel Kent
FBN
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Ken
re your comment that "Electricians aren't yet tuned into protective contracts. They will get there, especially if they want to be in the alarm business."
The reality is the "electricians" don't design the system, they don't submit the system to the jurisdiction for approval either. All they do is install it as they are told to do. And yes, some have expertise to specialize in the installation to understand what the jurisdiction requires, but for all intents and purposes they merely do the work for completion. Let's face it, if it is a union job they are the only craftsmen allowed on the job. Whether you are a SMB or large company and not union you contract the work to a union company.
The same goes for any elevator work. Can you see alarm installers trying to connect anything to the elevator cab, drops, or connections for any security like CCTV, telephone, or emergency.
Marty
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